A good friend of mine and I spend 3 hours debating religion after a good few months of laying off such an interesting topic.
I've always been told that God cannot be dis-proven, which I believed until recently. God in the most general terms cannot be dis-proven, but if you define God with certain attributes and those attributes contradict each other, then dis-proving god really becomes as easy as pointing out those contradictions.
In discussing all this with my friend I searched the web for what Epicurus wrote sometime in the 3rd century BCE.
Is god willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is god both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god?
Incredible stuff, this Epicurus. My friend must of invoked the MWC (mysterious ways clause) a dozen times. I didn't know to call it MWC. LOL.
What did I learn? First, that God's omniscience is incompatible with the concept of free will. God is the creator of all, evil exists, therefore god created evil (suffering). Something a Christian will readily deny.
Finally, I re-enforced the idea within me that I don't believe in god because the concept cannot exist rationally. The same way I don't believe in flying pigs because it isn't possible :).
I found this article that describes many of the arguments I made to my friend. Great stuff!
Apparently there two sides to this whole debacle. Those who believe there is an omnipotent being watching over us, and those who don't see evidence for such a being.
It is hard to believe this omnipotent being would allow such misery.
Here are a few arguments made by those you believe. They so funny!
ARGUMENT FROM SCIENTISTS
Some famous scientists believed in God.
Therefore, God exists.
ARGUMENT FROM QUANTUM PHYSICS
Quantum physics uses an uncertainty principle.
There is room for God.
Therefore, God exists.
ARGUMENT FROM WOW
"When I look into the sky and see all the pretty stars, all those galaxies..."
Wow.
Therefore, God exists.
ARGUMENT FROM CHRISTIAN EXPERTS ARE IGNORED
Dembski, Behe and Plantinga are ignored by mainstream intellectuals.
Only a fear of the truth could explain this.
Therefore, God exists.
ARGUMENT FROM CHRISTIAN EXPERTS ARE NOT IGNORED
Mainstream intellectuals are paying some attention to Dembski, Behe and Plantinga.
Only a growing recognition of the truth could explain this.
In my discussion with my co-workers, they made the common mistake of calling a theory, "just a theory", meaning it has no factual standing. They even had the audacity to say that the "theory of gravity" is just a theory, which is true, it is a theory. LOL. It is a scientific theory, which makes a world of difference.
So for anyone reading this with some skeptisism, please check out Theory on Wikipedia
In science, a theory is a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of naturalphenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theories commonly used to describe and explain this behaviour are Newton's theory of universal gravitation (see also gravitation), and general relativity.
I take a personal interest in understanding the universe I live in. There is much I don't know, but I want to know and that is very important to me. I believe I have a higher than average understanding of cosmology, physics and other scientific bodies of knowledge.
This common misconception of gravity is just a theory, minimizing it's scientific value can best be seen on an interesting article I found written by a proponent of Intelligent Design, Warning: Gravity is "Only a Theory". I can understand how someone with limited knowledge of gravity can be easily persuaded in believing the absurd assertions made in this article.
A quote from Baron d'Holbach, a German French Author/Philosopher most famous for being one of the first self-described atheists in Europe.
If we go back to the beginning we shall find that ignorance and fear created the gods, that fancy, enthusiasm or deceit adorn them, that weakness worships them, that crudity preserves them, and that custom, respect and tyranny support them in order to make the blindness of men serve their own interest.
If the ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, the knowledge of nature is calculated to destroy them.
Resistance I just had the most disturbing conversation with two co-workers over our lunch break. My largest problem with our discussion was their ability to resist any form of rational discussion. I must admit they did this well by preventing any agreement to exist period.
Proof For example, when I noticed they were resiting agreement to anything, I placed my glass of soda at the center of our table and I asked,
Do you agree as a fact between us that this glass is sitting on this table?
They resisted, so I insisted. They said,
Yes the glass is on the table, but it's also not on the table. From a quantum physics perspective..."
Emotionally I think I understand where their resistance to agreement came from; my arrogance. I must make it a personal challenge to be less arrogant and more sensitive to others around me.
How it began They began to discuss how they believe that viruses like the Avian Flu, HIV exist to serve the purpose of controlling the human population. Homosexuality was also added to the list of elements to aid in controlling the human population. Additionally, hurricanes exist as a way for Earth/Nature to clean itself of human destruction.
I agree that global warming (or temperature change) does have a direct effect in our weather; But the idea that viruses and homosexuality serve the purpose of help control the human population creates a direct link between the existence of these elements with the purposeful modification of human affairs.
Ignorance From the way they discussed the Avian Flu, it was clear to me that I had more information on the subject. I made the mistake of telling them that their belief was based on bad information or lack of information.
I find it incredible that they could so quickly remove the ideas of rationale and reason from existence by saying something along the lines of,
Leandro, there are no facts, there is no truth, everything is whatever anyone wants it to be.
I agree that anyone can think anything they choose, but to say there are no facts, no truths is a great misunderstanding to what facts, truths and science is as a whole. I brought up science as a topic and they rebutted with the uncertainties shown to exist within our understanding of Quantum Physics.
Shame that people are not willing to discuss topics in an open way to learn or teach their peers through rational conversation.
Pat Condell has been on youtube only 8 months and he's already a hit, getting honors everytime he comes out with a video. With a new video a few times a month he has over 14,500 subscribers, which is incredible! See Pat's videos.
His video's provide an Atheist perspective to current and political events around the world with a funny and satirical twist. His latest rant is fantasic, more serious than funny and extremly interesting. Makes me think about muslim immigration in Europe and what effects it is having and will have in the future.
I read the most interesting article on lifehack.org about the human mind. It goes into some detail on how unaware we can be to subtle stimuli and how deceitful the brain can be in it's ever present goal to identify all that we experience. Apparently, the well known, "I'm never wrong" attitude is hard wired into our brain.
Reading this article only enforces the importance in of introspection, something I believe very strongly in and think it has an will continue to make me a better person. On a regular basis I observe in friends, family, co-workers and myself what I would categorize as insecurity and fears that manifest themselves in many forms usually denial and unhappiness.
I have recently ended a 2.5 year relationship with a very good man only after I realized that I was not satisfied (intellectually) with our relationship. My unhappiness was hidden behind my fear of being along and not finding a satisfying partner in my future. Through introspection I was able to discover this fear and make decisions based on what I thought were best for me, fears aside.
What a surprise, AT&T is suddenly involved in what could be a class action lawsuit accusing AT&T of illegal monopoly practices with it's latest exclusive venture with Apple's iPhone.
Personally, AT&T is an evil company that conspires with the government breaking any privacy one might hope to have with their telecommunication carrier. (AT&T rewrites rules: Your data isn't yours)
This is no surprise from AT&T, but Apple's involvement really makes me think twice about switching to an Apple computer, an idea I've been entertaining for some time now. Might be a negative move on my part.
I found these very interesting set of articles on Marijuana. I can't believe how backwards or slow the government is in making Marijuana legal.
I can't say I knew for sure from experience, but I'm glad that Marijuana is not like other drugs that causes the brain to produce more Dopamine. Drugs that affect dopamine production produce addiction because the human brain is genetically conditioned to adjust behavior to maximize dopamine production.
